Sorry that it has taken a long time to get back.
Of course I agree with the commenters on the last post as I think many of us here are on the same page. One may ask, "So what's the big deal if we all agree on this?" The deal is, we are the aberration. I challenge you to walk into any evangelical church (and I've done this) and use the word "luck" as, "Poor thing . . . they have had a lot of bad luck lately." You will get looks of horror on the faces of people. "Luck? No . . . I serve a mighty God and He is in control of everything!"
I've told the story here before about a 4 year old toddler in a previous church, who's father accidentally backed over him in the riding lawnmower and decapitated him. We were all in a state of shock and grief when one of my fellow elders took the podium (three days after the accident) and proclaimed, "What are we so down about? I serve the God of the universe and not one hair of Joey's head could have moved without God ordaining it. We must accept what God has done because He has a purpose that only He can understand!" The whole church broke out in Amen's. Joey's parents stopped coming to church in the subsequent months. They divorced (blamed each other for the accident . . . she left the door unlatch . . . he wasn't looking where he was going). I assume neither ever darkened the door of a church again.
I heard an interview with Kushner (When Bad Things Happen to Good People) and he said that he had to choose between a benevolent God or a omnipotent God as you can not have both. He said he preferred an benevolent one and had to re-think God in, what I would call, this-side-of-fate, terms. That God didn't have control of fate.
But I think you can have it both ways. A loving God, who is in control, but under who's watch nature (fallen nature) plays itself out along lines of cause and effect and probability. Bad things can happen to Good people as good things can happen to bad people without any superstitious connections to a higher purpose.
A good friend of mine is an example of another story. It is not so severe. I will summarize it.
Craig is an extremely nice guy, one of the nicest I've ever known. His wife had a dream of creating her own business. He supported her 100%. He liquidated his retirement (he is about 52 years old) and invested in the business. It completely failed within six months and he lost everything. He had no hard feelings. She, on the surface, was not troubled . . . with "Jesus is in control" thinking. But one morning she pulled up in front of the Church (where she was very active) and he could not get her out of the car. She started a downward spiral of anger directed at him (I think from her self-doubt and anger). She walked out of his life after 25 years of marriage. She left the church, her children and her friends and moved into a lonely apartment in another city.
Then, out of the blue, Craig's employer announced that they were shutting down the US operations and he was being laid off. At age 52 he was unemployed. He gave up his house and began couch surfing.
So he went from a stable, happy family with a good job and good retirement to alone, broke and no job, all in about six months. And Craig had done NOTHING wrong.
If math is the language of nature, which it is, then fate follows probabilities. On the bell-curve there are those who are born into rich families and with IQs of 150. They grow to be 6'4", dark, extremely handsome, state all stars in multiple sports without even trying hard. They live to 105 years old, having never had a major illness. Because they are rich they spend their lives exploring caves in New Guinea and drinking wine in France. They write books for fun, and the books are accidentally discovered and become best sellers. Some of these people are Christians, most are not.
On the other end are the Brendas. Or I think of the babies born with terminal cancer and live a few, very torturous months.
We do have to divorce God from fate and luck or we will have the tendency to re-invent Him as the weak but loving God or the strong but cruel one.
Of course I agree with the commenters on the last post as I think many of us here are on the same page. One may ask, "So what's the big deal if we all agree on this?" The deal is, we are the aberration. I challenge you to walk into any evangelical church (and I've done this) and use the word "luck" as, "Poor thing . . . they have had a lot of bad luck lately." You will get looks of horror on the faces of people. "Luck? No . . . I serve a mighty God and He is in control of everything!"
I've told the story here before about a 4 year old toddler in a previous church, who's father accidentally backed over him in the riding lawnmower and decapitated him. We were all in a state of shock and grief when one of my fellow elders took the podium (three days after the accident) and proclaimed, "What are we so down about? I serve the God of the universe and not one hair of Joey's head could have moved without God ordaining it. We must accept what God has done because He has a purpose that only He can understand!" The whole church broke out in Amen's. Joey's parents stopped coming to church in the subsequent months. They divorced (blamed each other for the accident . . . she left the door unlatch . . . he wasn't looking where he was going). I assume neither ever darkened the door of a church again.
I heard an interview with Kushner (When Bad Things Happen to Good People) and he said that he had to choose between a benevolent God or a omnipotent God as you can not have both. He said he preferred an benevolent one and had to re-think God in, what I would call, this-side-of-fate, terms. That God didn't have control of fate.
But I think you can have it both ways. A loving God, who is in control, but under who's watch nature (fallen nature) plays itself out along lines of cause and effect and probability. Bad things can happen to Good people as good things can happen to bad people without any superstitious connections to a higher purpose.
A good friend of mine is an example of another story. It is not so severe. I will summarize it.
Craig is an extremely nice guy, one of the nicest I've ever known. His wife had a dream of creating her own business. He supported her 100%. He liquidated his retirement (he is about 52 years old) and invested in the business. It completely failed within six months and he lost everything. He had no hard feelings. She, on the surface, was not troubled . . . with "Jesus is in control" thinking. But one morning she pulled up in front of the Church (where she was very active) and he could not get her out of the car. She started a downward spiral of anger directed at him (I think from her self-doubt and anger). She walked out of his life after 25 years of marriage. She left the church, her children and her friends and moved into a lonely apartment in another city.
Then, out of the blue, Craig's employer announced that they were shutting down the US operations and he was being laid off. At age 52 he was unemployed. He gave up his house and began couch surfing.
So he went from a stable, happy family with a good job and good retirement to alone, broke and no job, all in about six months. And Craig had done NOTHING wrong.
If math is the language of nature, which it is, then fate follows probabilities. On the bell-curve there are those who are born into rich families and with IQs of 150. They grow to be 6'4", dark, extremely handsome, state all stars in multiple sports without even trying hard. They live to 105 years old, having never had a major illness. Because they are rich they spend their lives exploring caves in New Guinea and drinking wine in France. They write books for fun, and the books are accidentally discovered and become best sellers. Some of these people are Christians, most are not.
On the other end are the Brendas. Or I think of the babies born with terminal cancer and live a few, very torturous months.
We do have to divorce God from fate and luck or we will have the tendency to re-invent Him as the weak but loving God or the strong but cruel one.