tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post9137836960485638072..comments2024-01-12T12:39:47.241-08:00Comments on The Christian Monist: G. K. & YatesUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-19866164110080526702010-07-21T17:10:10.961-07:002010-07-21T17:10:10.961-07:00Interesting. I started reading it. I will come bac...Interesting. I started reading it. I will come back to finish it later. Chesterton was certainly an interesting man with an interesting perspective.<br /><br />I agree with what I've read. I didn't read Brown, but I lazily saw the movie and enjoyed the drama of the fiction.MJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09240462070445948163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-2874830041726023312010-07-20T12:13:36.654-07:002010-07-20T12:13:36.654-07:00As a tangent to this discussion: you might like th...As a tangent to this discussion: you might like this: G.K. Chesterton on Dan Brown (and on fiction): http://www.ignatiusinsight.com/features2009/chesterton_danbrown_sept09.asp<br />I liked it :-)<br /><br />JohanJohanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13477699002066225256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-78211120509982644282010-07-19T14:16:05.866-07:002010-07-19T14:16:05.866-07:00Yeah, I think it has to do with this dualism thing...Yeah, I think it has to do with this dualism thing, the sense that ones ministry must be in the church, or that expressions not explicitly christian are not worthwile.<br /><br />And, yes, I noticed as H.U.G. said, that most of these authors come from a traditional church. I do think that there is a connection there. Maybe it's the sense of wonder and beauty in liturgy and the building that makes one look at faith through the eyes of the imagination. Maybe it is the sense of seeing life as something fundamentally good (as the Hobbits and Tolkien did).<br />I know in the Netherlands, the southern parts are mostly catholic. Here people enjoy life, drink beer, party at carnival and are more exuberant. The northern part of the Netherlands is originally calvinist. And that has become associated with frugal, harsh, condemning, work-ethic, austere buildings, an angry god et cetera.<br /><br />Sigh ... I just read imonks book 'Mere Churchianity' and identified with much that he wrote. As you ask: where's the reset-button? Or: maybe Jesus and his calling are not identical to what we have made of the church. Maybe there is hope in just trusting Jesus and living out of that in the world.<br /><br />JohanJohanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13477699002066225256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-12664662826959405072010-07-18T14:36:26.391-07:002010-07-18T14:36:26.391-07:00P.S. While all these Evangelical splinter churche...P.S. While all these Evangelical splinter churches (with no history between the "holy history" in the Bible and Our Founder) go Back to the Bible and end up reinventing the wheel over and over.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-75367974016950025572010-07-18T14:35:00.383-07:002010-07-18T14:35:00.383-07:00Something to remember, MJ:
Chesterton came out of...Something to remember, MJ:<br /><br />Chesterton came out of Liturgical church tradition, not SBC/Evangelical. He started out as a Victorian-era Anglican and ended up as an Edwardian-era Catholic. Both Western-rite Liturgical Churches (one the offspring of the other for political, not theological, reasons) with a long track record. After hundreds to thousands of years, you learn through institutional experience (Chesterton's words) "Which Fresh New Ideas are really Old Mistakes."<br /><br />Left Behind? Montanism (obsession over the End of the World, 3rd Century).<br /><br />Spritual Good, Physical Baaaaaad? Dualism and Docetism, from Gnostics of the 1st and 2nd Centuries.<br /><br />Con Man Preacher, in it purely for the money? Simony, from Simon Magus in the Book of Acts. Later expanded during the Middle Ages to include priests and bishops taking bribes and selling ordinations for cash.<br /><br />Don't think, Just BE-LEEEEEVE? Pietism.<br /><br />How Dare You Doubt God's Will? Jansenism (obsession with predestination), 16th Century. <br /><br />The Battle of the Booze that Baptists periodically fight out to the death? Never a problem in the Liturgical churches.<br /><br />Over 2000 years of history, Liturgical Christianity can say "Been there. Done that. Got the T-shirt."<br /><br />HUGAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-52532184121604362632010-07-18T13:42:20.278-07:002010-07-18T13:42:20.278-07:00Johan, I can only answer for myself. I know that t...Johan, I can only answer for myself. I know that there is a tendency for a hammer to see everything as a nail, but I think it is the Dualistic vs Monistic way of looking at the world. <br /><br />I know that all the years I was an Evangelical, fiction was seen as having no value, unless it was teaching some simplistic "Biblical" (quotes intended) less. Case in point, the popular Left Behind Series.<br /><br />But when fiction deals with the complexity of life, the pain and suffering of individuals, as well as their dreams . . . but without a simplistic resolution, that is why the present Evangelical paradigm does not place any value on . . . because it is not "spiritual."<br /><br />I know that fiction was seen as a totally waste of time in my early Christian experience. That's why I'm so amazed with I see people like Chesterton praising fiction (and speaking from a Christian voice) a long time ago.MJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09240462070445948163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-69152797427481187322010-07-18T12:08:21.872-07:002010-07-18T12:08:21.872-07:00I'm very glad that you are discovering Chester...I'm very glad that you are discovering Chesterton. He has a way with words, that's for sure. <br />And I really enjoy your words on fiction and your journey of discovering important novels with other perspectives.<br />I myself ask the question to myself this weekend: why does the church not produce men (or women) like Chesterton/Lewis/Tolkien/Sayers/MacDonald or Charles Williams anymore? Christian authors comfortable in writing (fantasy) fiction and apologetics and theology both, appreciated by people in and out the church and church culture, conversant with culture contemporary and in tradition, and enthusiastic, joyful creators with a deeply felt respect for the Creator ...<br /><br />JohanJohanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13477699002066225256noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-5925062393443096212010-07-15T17:25:52.458-07:002010-07-15T17:25:52.458-07:00I'm much more familiar with Chesterton's n...I'm much more familiar with Chesterton's non-fiction (<i>Orthodoxy, The Catholic Church and Conversion, What Is Wrong with the World</i>) and poetry than I am with his fiction (except for his Father Brown Mysteries).<br /><br />Chesterton was quite a character -- look up his biography on Wikipedia sometime. Most of what he wrote is still in print.<br /><br />In fiction, Chesterton is best known for his Father Brown Mysteries; the complete collection is called <i>The Father Brown Omnibus</i>, and dramatized versions of several of them were braodcast on PBS's <i>Mystery</i> some years ago (and should be available from Amazon.com).<br /><br />He is also known for a very strange quasi-fantasy novel, <i>The Man Who would be Thursday</i>. Web cartoonist <a href="http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Genesis_Whitmore" rel="nofollow">Gen Whitmore</a> is running a furry webcomic adaptation of it Wednesdays on her webcomic <a href="http://www.little-tales.com/" rel="nofollow">Little Tails</a>. She's up to 120+ pages at last count.<br /><br />Also try to score a collection of Chesterton's poetry if you can. He was known for both quirky short poems centering around paradoxes and long epic poetry such as "Lepanto" and "Ballad of the White Horse".<br /><br />Headless Unicorn GuyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com