tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post8338062807571936327..comments2024-01-12T12:39:47.241-08:00Comments on The Christian Monist: DSM IV Axis II - The Church's Dirty Little Secret Part IV Psychopathic/Sociopathic Personalities – The David Berkowitz StoryUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-31116773480117646282009-05-06T16:39:00.000-07:002009-05-06T16:39:00.000-07:00Leaves me speechless.Leaves me speechless.PHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15292156826231664316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-83025184139172125392009-05-05T12:43:00.000-07:002009-05-05T12:43:00.000-07:00Yes, Headless (I assume that's you writing the Ano...<I>Yes, Headless (I assume that's you writing the Anon. posts), Mike Warnke was sure part of my ecstatic yet clueless in so many ways 1970's experience. ... I do wonder if he holds an awful lot of responsibility for the McMartin circus (and conviction, I think).</I> -- Pennyak<br /><br />Not directly, but he was largely responsible for starting the Satanic Panic with his tall tales and claimed expertise. Others formed around him -- Constance Cumby, Johana Michaelson (Hal Lindsay's sister-in-law, which opens another whole new world of linkages), John Todd (who got into a backstage fist fight with Warnke over "You Stole My Shtick!"), andothers who climbed on the bandwagon, all forming an incestuous clique of "Satanic Conspiracy Experts" citing each other as references. (i.e. "the Larry-Moe-Curly school of documentation" you see in a LOT of Conspiracy Theorists, a LOT less funny than the original Stooges.)<br /><br />Result: <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic" REL="nofollow">Moral Panic</A>, also known as a <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse" REL="nofollow">Witch Hunt</A>. I got caught in the edge of the blast radius because I played D&D.<br /><br />Headless Unicorn GuyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-26151715116636159762009-05-04T23:13:00.000-07:002009-05-04T23:13:00.000-07:00Yes, Headless (I assume that's you writing the Ano...Yes, Headless (I assume that's you writing the Anon. posts), Mike Warnke was sure part of my ecstatic yet clueless in so many ways 1970's experience. Course, he went on way beyond that, and still has a ministry today (I looked it up). Psychopath of psychopaths. I do wonder if he holds an awful lot of responsibility for the McMartin circus (and conviction, I think). How many times in life have I been so completely stupid. A bunch, I guess. If anyone claimed "I am a Christian", I was sucker bait.PHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15292156826231664316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-34966347607668311202009-05-04T15:05:00.000-07:002009-05-04T15:05:00.000-07:00Thank you for writing this. I did not hear about ...Thank you for writing this. I did not hear about his conversion or his Christian celebrity.<br /><br />I would be more accepting of his conversion if he were just quietly talking to other prisoners, etc.<br /><br />I also don't think much of those who are exploiting the man. <br /><br />One thing about the Catholic Church is that we are set up to judge in some ways this kind of situation. Yes, we do get the Mary in the griddle cake, but the pastor and bishop hope that it just goes away quietly. But, if not, then there are mechanisms to test the people.Anna Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14349723755730969082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-43961546665090455982009-05-04T14:22:00.000-07:002009-05-04T14:22:00.000-07:00So interesting...So interesting...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-16208521619459096392009-05-04T10:13:00.000-07:002009-05-04T10:13:00.000-07:00Plus, in her view, it doesn’t matter if David is s...<I>Plus, in her view, it doesn’t matter if David is sincere or not. Isn’t he doing God’s work, even if he is lying and still crazy after all of these years (thanks Paul)?</I>Again, Mike Warnke; when exposed as a fraud, his defenders rallied around the same banner: "SOULS ARE BEING SAVED (TM)!!!!"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-2400418236179746132009-05-04T10:11:00.000-07:002009-05-04T10:11:00.000-07:00He clearly remembered David’s last words before he...<I>He clearly remembered David’s last words before he entered the jetway bridge, “I’m going to go and turn NYC upside down for Jesus!”</I>Well, he was half right...<br /><br /><br /><I>The other reason is that psychopaths and sociopaths are masters at lying and manipulation. This IS WHAT THEY DO.</I>I've been on the receiving end of it; I had one of them in my immediate family. And nobody is Such a Perfect Sweet Little Angel as a psychopath/sociopath -- "WHY CAN'T YOU BE MORE LIKE YOUR BROTHER??????" (Ever seen <I>The Bad Seed</I>? Without the tacked-on Hollywood happy ending? Non-fiction.)<br /><br /><I>The lay person just does not understand how these people can spin huge interwoven stories to create self-gratification. <br />...<br />Psychopaths are far more complex than that. They create entire worlds where they force other people to live in ... worlds where they, themselves are king ... and it is part of the game.</I>In one of his Father Brown Mysteries ("The Dagger with Wings"), Chesterton writes of the gift of storytelling, and how it can be used to create True Fiction or False Fact. Novelists (like I'm trying to become) do the former; psychopaths/sociopaths/pathological liars do the latter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-30532248828037406042009-05-04T10:05:00.000-07:002009-05-04T10:05:00.000-07:00The next strange twist came in the early 90s (I th...<I>The next strange twist came in the early 90s (I think). He then told a story that the real reason that he killed those people was because he was involved in a satanic cult. It was a cult that not only worshipped Satan, but killed dogs around New York (and other animals) and of course people. In one version of the story, he said he had only actually killed three of the victims and the other members had killed the other people. He would not reveal the names of the other killers because he was afraid they would harm his family. But then other times he admitted to all of the killings. The stories about the satanic group were never substantiated.<br /><br />It was around this time (and again I don’t have the details in front of me) that he started telling this fantastic (meaning this on two levels—wonderful and beyond belief) story of how another inmate started sharing Christ with him. This other inmate gave him a Gideon New Testament and he started reading it. Soon, he gave his life to Christ and is a totally new man.</I>First two words that ran through my mind when I read those two paragraphs: MIKE. WARNKE.<br /><br /><I>His conversion came almost 15 years ago, but only seemed to hit the Christian media about 3-4 years ago.</I>Maybe it took that long to get around to him? So many celebrity converts, so little time...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-33094180749337929752009-05-03T19:26:00.000-07:002009-05-03T19:26:00.000-07:00Thanks Pennyyak and I agree. I hope to post next t...Thanks Pennyyak and I agree. I hope to post next time why it is important that we seek truth in all things. Not talking about precise theological doctrine (I have the truth and you don't na na na na), but about simple every day emotional truth.<br /><br />Not to be conceited about it, I will tell a lie if given the chance (and I'm ashamed about that). I will also practice a little narcissistic behavior from time to time.MJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09240462070445948163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-39127699832051666152009-05-03T19:19:00.000-07:002009-05-03T19:19:00.000-07:00Rodney, you're exactly right.Rodney, you're exactly right.MJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09240462070445948163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-67129751575632545122009-05-03T19:18:00.000-07:002009-05-03T19:18:00.000-07:00Sorry, I really don't like to post twice (is that ...Sorry, I really don't like to post twice (is that in the dsm?). Ha. But re-reading the post, and David's admission (yes, I was a Christian, don't want to include that...) is another in an incredibly long history of Christians being willing to accept the white lie as okay, as long as that furthers the kingdom of God. How holy is that? Unbelievers quite justifiably call us hypocrites when things like that become public, as they should. I am greatly encouraged by all of your writing to let my testimony be full of my weaknesses, which, astoundingly, does nothing to make God less than He is. With a note of sarcasm, I personally will be unable to derail God's great plan of salvation by telling the unvarnished truth about my walk with God. His purposes will be accomplished, even in our false steps.PHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15292156826231664316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-21234233520472031822009-05-03T18:34:00.000-07:002009-05-03T18:34:00.000-07:00Excellent. I knew of David's ministry only throug...Excellent. I knew of David's ministry only through some website link I came upon once. Never heard the rest of it, or knew that it was a big story in some of the evangelical world. It is the most natural desire, I guess, to want to see God at work in some way that is truly powerful (to our eyes). To believe, and see no evidence with our human eyes, now that I think is a faith that can outlast disappointment, failure, and everything the natural world has in store for us. But how much we want some emotional something, some tangible proof - well, I've been there, and I might be there again if I live long enough. Yeah, we're like kids wanting a lollipop.pennyyakhttp://pennyyak.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-30875390427657828292009-05-03T15:49:00.000-07:002009-05-03T15:49:00.000-07:00No hate mail here...you make very good points. Too...No hate mail here...you make very good points. Too many Evangelicals are constantly on the lookout for amazing works of God, whether they be dramatic conversions or medical miracles. They are very willing to discount other factors and give all credit to God (except when things go wrong, then it's Satan). I see it too in the gay person who becomes a hero when he/she claims that all homosexual desires disappeared when they accepted Christ. Then everyone is shocked, yes shocked!! when that person gets caught in a homosexual tryst. I grew up in a wonderful Christian home so I have no dramatic conversion story to tell. But like everyone, I struggle with sin and doubt. It's just not as easy and straightforward as some Christians try to make it. Keep up the good work and I'm looking forward to your further postings.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15898906757592544980noreply@blogger.com