tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post4165277778723861598..comments2024-01-12T12:39:47.241-08:00Comments on The Christian Monist: The Wilderness Deeper InUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-89778454001636733132011-04-22T11:27:13.949-07:002011-04-22T11:27:13.949-07:00Hi, Monist- I just wanted to say that this is a tr...Hi, Monist- I just wanted to say that this is a truly beautiful post. I've bookmarked it to read the next time I'm feeling similarly stuck. You must be really courageous to put your struggles out in the open like this.<br /><br />I haven't had the kind of experience you describe in a church context, but your last big paragraph is amazingly well-written. I can definitely identify with the experience of being an analytical person who just wants to be intellectually honest about a topic you care about deeply, only to feel like most of the people around you would prefer you just shut up, kept smiling and got with the programme.<br /><br />For what it's worth, I do think that many of the specific trials you've faced stem from a mindset that's endemic to the American evangelical community specifically. I'm from the UK, where the word 'evangelical' seems like it has quite a distinct historical context (for example, it doesn't seem to imply 'probably votes for right-wing candidates' to nearly the same extent). <br /><br />While I'm no longer a Christian, I've spent quite a bit of time in English church services (mostly Methodist and Anglican), and the impression I get is that the kind of questions you're asking about faith would not be considered at all out of place in those churches. If anything, it seems like the questions you're asking would be considered a sign of spiritual maturity, not apostasy.<br /><br />I'm not saying this because I'm trying to push your towards another denomination (or towards secular agnosticism, which is where I am right now). And obviously all groups of people, both Christian and non, will tend towards dysfunctional behaviour at least to some extent. It just sounds like you've suffered through a lot of experiences where you've been made to feel isolated, even crazy. And that's heartbreaking, since I from my perspective you're very much not alone, in terms of where you are with your faith journey, and there are plenty of people who feel that your opinions make perfect sense.<br /><br />I really hope that your new church works out for you- from what you've said in recent posts, it sounds a lot more welcoming than some of the environments you've been forced to suffer through in the past.<br /><br />Peace,<br />CarrieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-45435346153744347132010-05-25T21:17:32.003-07:002010-05-25T21:17:32.003-07:00Anonymous,I wouldn't put God in the "chur...Anonymous,I wouldn't put God in the "church" car and drive it off a cliff. You can take God out of your church experience (before the car goes over) and still relate to Him for who He is.<br /><br />My favorite (in my dreams) is a church described in the book, The Post Evangelical. It is called "Holy Joes" (corny name) but it is a group of friends you meet in a pub (in the UK) and talk very deeply and honestly, and pray sincerely for each other. <br /><br />I agree with what you said in your other post about praying for people taking any job.MJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09240462070445948163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-45639981060963348612010-05-25T20:51:12.378-07:002010-05-25T20:51:12.378-07:00I am out of the church. It is lonely and difficult...I am out of the church. It is lonely and difficult. I recognized this posting very well. I lost quite bit when I left the faith. With some of my friends I discovered that the "deep" Christian friendships I thought I had were incredibly "shallow." With others I have had a difficulty of how to relate? I've also had to deal with anger..the anger of huge disappointments and shattered expectations that was still ongoing. I was having difficulty and yet in my church experiences everyone was "blessed" while I was in the forest. <br /><br />Oh well we know the answer for this one though. It must be either sin in your life or lack of faith.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-3447929308979500462010-05-25T08:26:43.171-07:002010-05-25T08:26:43.171-07:00Curvy, of course you are right about the spelling ...Curvy, of course you are right about the spelling and I do know better about bawl. I think it is one of my many defects that as long as I've been writing anything and especially when I write fast on my little pocket computer, I make those mistakes. I've come to the resolution that I will never over-come that problem. <br /><br />However, the reason that the book manuscript isn't being publish has nothing to do with these typos. I know my short-comings in this area. I can't even proof read my own work. Every time I've submitted anything for publication (and including my pitch letters to agents) I have others, those with a keen eye (or should I say a keen "I")go over it with a fine tooth comb.<br /><br />I've had the chance to publish about 30 articles in journals and I always rely on better eyes than mine before I submit.MJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09240462070445948163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-86059906092560791692010-05-25T06:51:41.376-07:002010-05-25T06:51:41.376-07:00Great post, and not wanting to be nit-picky but .....Great post, and not wanting to be nit-picky but ... when you do get this published in a book, there are a couple of places where you'll want to change the spelling of "ball" to "bawl" (i.e. "<b>bawl</b> like a baby"). I'm just sayin. ;-)Aunt Chrissyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08231210385677179258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-25389634954630829472010-05-24T07:51:18.708-07:002010-05-24T07:51:18.708-07:00That last chant, HUG, sounds familiar. Where do yo...<i>That last chant, HUG, sounds familiar. Where do you find all of this information?</i><br /><br />I think that came from a Reader's Digest article in the mid-Sixties, when Chairman Mao was trying to one-up the First Emperor in control-freak craziness.<br /><br />I'm an ex-kid genius and natural-talent speedreader. Learned to read at four, and speedread everything I could ever since. By the time I was ten, I'd read more than most people do in a lifetime and it all got stashed somewhere in my brain. Back when my bingo-balls were still floating around in the draw-tank and I had NO way to evaluate or fit them together into anything coherent.<br /><br />Result: I have these totally random cascades of trivia and information that come out when THEY want to, not when I need them to. Your Enlightened Self Criticism "confession" to your Baptist Betters triggered that scene from the long-ago Reader's Digest, written by a survivor of Chairman Mao's purge. (And 50/50 chance it could have cascaded further, free-associating into other random scenes and memories of something I read once 40+ years ago.)<br /><br />Headless Unicorn GuyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-234277391479354382010-05-22T21:51:25.156-07:002010-05-22T21:51:25.156-07:00Love your blog. Love your honesty. Love your quest...Love your blog. Love your honesty. Love your questions. I would like to email you but I don't see your address anywhere...?Recovering Alumnihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08118927101030203407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-58500799519307919482010-05-22T17:38:47.119-07:002010-05-22T17:38:47.119-07:00I have to apologize for all my typos.
I have such...I have to apologize for all my typos.<br /><br />I have such a short time to write anything, I must do it on the fly, one pass, with my tiny pocket computer that I can barely see. I hope to come back and fix things and improve them.MJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09240462070445948163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-55971385545574409522010-05-22T17:37:18.472-07:002010-05-22T17:37:18.472-07:00Anna,there are certainly days I wish I were Cathol...Anna,there are certainly days I wish I were Catholic.MJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09240462070445948163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-58178801477248690102010-05-22T17:36:16.925-07:002010-05-22T17:36:16.925-07:00That last chant, HUG, sounds familiar. Where do y...That last chant, HUG, sounds familiar. Where do you find all of this information?MJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09240462070445948163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-69371897205633926922010-05-22T17:34:55.743-07:002010-05-22T17:34:55.743-07:00"I wonder how you were ever able to find some..."I wonder how you were ever able to find somebody and get married in the first place."<br /><br />Well, it did work out. I have to say that Denise and I have been happily married for 20 some years. This isn't the point you were making but I thought I would take this opportunity to make a statement. <br /><br />I sometimes cringe when I make comments about Denise not supporting my desire to change churches and how she is a "normal" evangelical so she is certainly not in the wilderness. This negative comments, I am sure, concerns some people. Most people don't say anything negative about their marriage unless they are in deep marital do, do. But, I speak very honestly about it. What I say is as bad as it gets. What I mean is that besides us being on a different page on this issue, we get along pretty well. <br /><br />I do know that many of my Nav training center friends had great difficulties in their marriages. Mostly because they had such high expectations that they had to bury deeply any cracks . . . until the whole thing about fell apart.MJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09240462070445948163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-26537854671862470392010-05-22T15:24:08.824-07:002010-05-22T15:24:08.824-07:00It's rough out here, isn't it.
While I...It's rough out here, isn't it.<br /><br />While I'm in a different part of the forest, I would still give a whole lot of something to be part of the "in" group, or just listened to.<br /><br />When your view of the Bible, the Church, devotions, evangelatization is somewhere between the Baptist that I was and the Catholic view, you find it hard to even talk to people in their own religious language, and be true to the God that you know, love and argue withAnna Ahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14349723755730969082noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-47645426740034633532010-05-22T11:39:04.921-07:002010-05-22T11:39:04.921-07:00There are days when I look at that door way (by th...<i>There are days when I look at that door way (by the way, I do go to the general church service each Sunday, but not involved with anything else) and I am seriously tempted to go back through, to cast myself down and ball. I want to say, “Forgive me for I have been in deep sin. I’ve been negative. I’ve stopped smiling all the time and I know that was wrong. Forgive me and I want to come back. I want to pretend that we are all saints that none of us have alternative motives for the things we manipulate each other into doing. That person A is not flirting with person B or to not notice that program C, D and E is about someone’s ego and has nothing to do with “Jesus” as advertised. I’m sorry that I believed the scientist with their silly little PhDs and they has mistaken a pig for Lucy and Mount Saint Helens proved the earth is only 6,000 years old. I confess I’ve been a fool and have been brainwashed by the humanist, liberal intellectuals. I confess that I don’t believe that God is constantly working outside the laws of physics just for me and that devils are constantly trying to frustrate me with flat tires and bad colds. Please take me back in. I will never go against the herd again . . . never. I will re-join the Republican party (or the Tea Party). I just need the warmth and the lights."</i><br /><br />"I am a Cow Headed Monster,<br />I have Sinned! I have Sinned!<br />I have succumbed to Bourgeios Capitalist Thought,<br />I have Sinned! I have Sinned!<br />I certainly hope I'm sincere about it,<br />If I'm not you can tear me to bits!!!"<br />-- "Enlightened Self-Criticism" song traitors and thought-criminals were forced by the Red Guard Brigades to sing before the People during Chairman Mao's Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution, mid-1960s<br /><br />Headless Unicorn Guy (who else?)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-60004359390800089992010-05-22T11:33:57.981-07:002010-05-22T11:33:57.981-07:00You know how it is sometimes. You get in a funk an...<i>You know how it is sometimes. You get in a funk and you don’t know why. In my Nav days I’m confident that my old friend Gary would tell me that the funk was demonic oppression.</i><br /><br />When all you have is a Hammer...<br /><br /><i>I was involved with the Navs all the way through college and then I went to a Navigator staff training center for another 5 years. Then I moved to Michigan, got married and started a Navigator ministry for four years before becoming a Navigator missionary...</i><br /><br />From the utter rigidity and conformity and control-freak Holiness shtick you've described as the Nav Zeitgeist, I wonder how you were ever able to find somebody and get married in the first place.<br /><br /><i>But it was like far back in the darken corner of the ballroom was a door, an alluring door. Then once I looked up and the door briefly opened and closed. I get a glimpse of another world . . . green . . . and with trees. I keep thinking about that door as I dance in my bright, white suit and holding my mask firm to my face.</i><br /><br />You know, this sounds like <i>The Truman Show</i> crossed with Mike and the Mechanics' "Silent Running".<br /><br /><i>But, due to the lack of insight, it was believed that God was in the ballroom and if you didn’t dance like a mad fool, you didn’t love Him.</i><br /><br />Like North Koreans Dancing Joyfully With Great Enthusiasm for Comrade Dear Leader. Or Else.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com