tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post3277005769778571891..comments2024-01-12T12:39:47.241-08:00Comments on The Christian Monist: The Truth about ProjectsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-52869367687418634572010-09-12T08:54:15.205-07:002010-09-12T08:54:15.205-07:00I play some sports in highschool. Not much. I do l...I play some sports in highschool. Not much. I do like to follow some,such as NCAA basketball. However I wonder what the sports culture of the formative years have done to our kids.<br /><br />I mean, all you hear is about the great benefits of playing team sports. You rarely hear about those, such as yourself and my own kids, who experience some deep pain. I think it could be the untold story.<br /><br />I think that's why it is a little hard when I see the gospel so often mixed with sports.<br /><br />The most extreme example was the "Caged fighting church" that I mentioned once before. You could hear the pastor, during his interview, language such as, "We want to teach men how to be real men of God." So being gladiators was the right way, at least in his eyes.<br /><br />I better stop mentioning my wife. I always regret it after I do. She has plenty of positive things and we do have a healthy marriage despite our different views on the church situation.MJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09240462070445948163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-9352989982172552782010-09-11T23:44:06.645-07:002010-09-11T23:44:06.645-07:00The next issue about this project is the way in wh...<i>The next issue about this project is the way in which it is packaged. It, for all practical purposes, is a MLM scheme.</i><br /><br />Which Christians are very prone to. What do you think Campus Crusade's "Multiplying Ministry" was but a "Pyramid Scheme for Jesus"? (Or Packaging Christ as Pyramid Scheme?) I'd get the heebie-jeebies from that, too:<br /><br />"Gonna jive my way<br />To the top of the Pyramid,<br />The top of the Pyramid;<br />Gonna get my name<br />On top of that list..."<br />-- Dr Demento song about "Pyramid Power"<br /><br />Headless Unicorn GuyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-51014539830893248262010-09-11T23:43:05.239-07:002010-09-11T23:43:05.239-07:00I’m not sure if their mom appreciates their distas...<i>I’m not sure if their mom appreciates their distaste for organized sports as she was the proverbial cheerleader dating the quarterback throughout high school. You know, the small-town American dream.</i><br /><br />I think this explains a lot about your wife. Has she replaced high school with the church and "is still in high school"? Satisfied with the Evangelical farce because she's the BWOC there, still the Cheerleader?<br /><br />It was my experiences with cheerleaders in high school (many of whom I knew from grade school) that taught me to distrust and hate females. This deep distrust of women is a part of high school that has never left me. The only exception was Ann eight years after I escaped high school, and you know how that ended.<br /><br /><i>The second part carries the greater mystery. You see, our church always has a new world changing program or emphasis each fall. They always peter out before a few months have passed.</i><br /><br />Not "program" or "emphasis" -- FAD DU JOUR. And like all fads, it quickly becomes "so day-before-yesterday".<br /><br /><i>First of all, it is another evangelical project. I was very involved in such a project years ago called “I Found It!”</i><br /><br />I remember that one! And all the parodies -- "I Lost It!", the Mogem David with "I Never Lost It!", Campus Crusade for Cthulhu with "IT Found Me!"<br /><br /><i>We were going to reach the entire world for Christ within one year and then usher in Jesus’ second coming.</i><br /><br />Note what you just said. You were "reaching them for Christ" not for them aor for anything about them, but to "reach" everybody to fulfill some prophecy so the world could end.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-25729950967665740012010-09-11T23:42:35.938-07:002010-09-11T23:42:35.938-07:00(Having to break this into two parts because of yo...(Having to break this into two parts because of your blog engine's maximum comment length...)<br /><br /><br /><i>I’m not sure if their mom appreciates their distaste for organized sports as she was the proverbial cheerleader dating the quarterback throughout high school. You know, the small-town American dream.</i><br /><br />I think this explains a lot about your wife. Has she replaced high school with the church and "is still in high school"? Satisfied with the Evangelical farce because she's the BWOC there, still the Cheerleader?<br /><br />It was my experiences with cheerleaders in high school (many of whom I knew from grade school) that taught me to distrust and hate females. This deep distrust of women is a part of high school that has never left me. The only exception was Ann eight years after I escaped high school, and you know how that ended.<br /><br /><i>The second part carries the greater mystery. You see, our church always has a new world changing program or emphasis each fall. They always peter out before a few months have passed.</i><br /><br />Not "program" or "emphasis" -- FAD DU JOUR. And like all fads, it quickly becomes "so day-before-yesterday".<br /><br /><i>First of all, it is another evangelical project. I was very involved in such a project years ago called “I Found It!”</i><br /><br />I remember that one! And all the parodies -- "I Lost It!", the Mogem David with "I Never Lost It!", Campus Crusade for Cthulhu with "IT Found Me!"<br /><br /><i>We were going to reach the entire world for Christ within one year and then usher in Jesus’ second coming.</i><br /><br />Note what you just said. You were "reaching them for Christ" not for them aor for anything about them, but to "reach" everybody to fulfill some prophecy so the world could end.<br /><br /><i>The next issue about this project is the way in which it is packaged. It, for all practical purposes, is a MLM scheme.</i><br /><br />Which Christians are very prone to. What do you think Campus Crusade's "Multiplying Ministry" was but a "Pyramid Scheme for Jesus"? (Or Packaging Christ as Pyramid Scheme?) I'd get the heebie-jeebies from that, too:<br /><br />"Gonna jive my way<br />To the top of the Pyramid,<br />The top of the Pyramid;<br />Gonna get my name<br />On top of that list..."<br />-- Dr Demento song about "Pyramid Power"<br /><br />Headless Unicorn GuyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-56848147866407055982010-09-11T23:41:19.445-07:002010-09-11T23:41:19.445-07:00Finally have the time to comment on this (and ther...Finally have the time to comment on this (and there's a lot to comment on). This is going to be pretty raw stream of consciousness...<br /><br /><i>I considered it as bad because the sermon was about football. The pastor is a big football fan. The chief elder is a high school coach. We use to have a couple of other coaches in our congregation. The pastor’s brother is a high school coach. So the subject matter comes very easily to our congregation.<br />...<br />You see, for most of my sons, high school athletics were not a positive experience. </i><br /><br />I went to high school from 1969 to 1973. I have been trying in vain to forget those four years ever since.<br /><br />You see, I was in the same boat as your son. Football jocks, football coaches, and cheerleaders were The Master Race and all the rest of us were the Subhumans. And I was at the bottom of the Subhumans.<br /><br /><i>I remember when we first moved to Spring Valley, Minnesota (a farming and football town) I observed while a pick up truck load of players passed by our house and screamed at my sons (whom I obvious love very much), “Hey Jones Queers!”<br /><br />I asked my sons, “What was that all about?”<br /><br />One of my sons answered, “Dad, this is our lives all day, every day because we aren’t on the team.”</i><br /><br />At least it was "QUEER!" and not "FAGGOT!" With me, there was also being threatened regularly with being dragged behind the backstop and gang-raped up the ass like "the faggot you are". <br /><br />(Note that just like in a prison rape, only the penetrated sub on the bottom is the Fag; the penetrating dom on top is The Real Man because he made a woman out of you. When I described my high school career to people, they'd often thing I was describing how People thought I'd done time in prison.)<br /><br />Have any of your sons been decoyed into bathrooms and then dogpiled and their jaw almost broken? Have they learned to hold it in all day and only pee in the one or two "safe" bathrooms nobody ever goes into?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-7209242974955392892010-09-08T13:36:24.049-07:002010-09-08T13:36:24.049-07:00Trevor, I share your concern. As others have said ...Trevor, I share your concern. As others have said (in so many words) part of it has to do with who is defining truth. If the "truth" defined by them is not consistent with the truth you know to be real, then there is tremendous social coercion to conform to their truth.<br /><br />I also don't like the way that truth is used as a weapon to point to and define the evil people of the world.<br /><br />It seemed to me that Francis Schaeffer (at least the early Schaeffer before he met the American Evangelicals) wanted to know truth for our own enhancement of life. Also to see how we have been misled at points ... not to define the enemy.MJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09240462070445948163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-83756944664311559072010-09-08T13:31:27.627-07:002010-09-08T13:31:27.627-07:00Mike, I read his blog. Many interesting comments f...Mike, I read his blog. Many interesting comments from people actually working their way through the program. Interesting.MJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09240462070445948163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-1371099682973292812010-09-08T13:24:49.884-07:002010-09-08T13:24:49.884-07:00Haven't read anything from Brennan before. Sou...Haven't read anything from Brennan before. Sounds like an interesting man. Thanks for sharing it and it does seem to express the point I as trying to make, better.MJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09240462070445948163noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-61740452598065238402010-09-08T06:02:16.570-07:002010-09-08T06:02:16.570-07:00The 'Truth Project' could certainly be an ...The 'Truth Project' could certainly be an interesting exercise; it's fascinating to explore the nature of truth, how we perceive reality, and how our mental frameworks allow us to judge the value of conflicting statements.<br /><br />The third entry in their FAQ defines truth as 'that which conforms to reality.' So far so good, I can agree with that, as I strongly identify as an empiricist. Truth claims should definitely be tested against reality, and where there's a contradiction between a statement and observable reality then we should revise the statement. <br /><br />The next entry, however starts talking about a 'Biblical Worldview' , and then redefines truth as that which conforms to the Bible. <br /><br />Now it seems to me that these are two quite different definitions, that could be in a lot of tension with one another. Unfortunately nowhere do I see an indication that these tensions will be explored. This is a shame, because this could be a very useful exercise.<br /><br />For example, what do we do when our experience of reality stands in tension with the claims of the Bible? At the moment, the issues that are challenging me are not the big philosophical ones of creation, divine intervention and so forth, but the simpler ones regarding the behaviour of Christians.<br /><br />1 John 13:35 says 'all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another'; yet I keep meeting Christians who don't love each other. Ephesians 4 talks about the unity of the church, yet I experience the church as deeply fractured and divided.<br /><br />If the 'Truth Project' addressed these tensions, then I'd be all for it. Instead I see the fifth FAQ entry, which I suspect is the key one, that states that the project is fundamentally designed to counter postmodernism, and a rather poorly understood postmodernism at that.Trevor Morganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02583257795864285412noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-11469253020886945722010-09-08T03:42:20.437-07:002010-09-08T03:42:20.437-07:00Mike: check out Mike Bieder's blog through the...Mike: check out Mike Bieder's blog through the Truth Project at;<br />http://thecreationofanevolutionist.blogspot.com/2010/01/searching-for-truth-in-truth-project.html<br /><br />Mike the GeologistMike the Geologistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-878914472051909043.post-84762762425475380382010-09-08T01:00:22.644-07:002010-09-08T01:00:22.644-07:00You long for what is real. Something you can touc...You long for what is real. Something you can touch. Someone you can hold. Someone who will enjoy the quiet. People who know Jesus in the opposite of hype. Heart speaking to heart. <br /><br />There's nothing wrong with you. We are not called to experience the same as the majority. It's obvious that the "church" you are experiencing is not for you. No matter how many times you suck it up, Sundays are not going to be you cup of tea :-)<br /><br />Here's a story from Brennan Manning. Perhaps this story explains the longings of your heart?<br /><i>Later in the evening as I dozed off, contrasting images danced on the screen of my mind: Carlton Hayes, a magnificently chiseled athlete in his early twenties, six-foot-three, 185 pounds, bounces on a trampoline flashing the irresistible Briteway smile. A crowd has gathered. He switches to skipping rope—a dazzling display of coordination, agility, and grace. The onlookers cheer. "Praise God," the athlete shouts.<br />Meanwhile, Moe, one of his retinue of attendants, approaches with a glass of Gatorade. In his early fifties, Moe is five-foot-four and paunchy. He wears a rumpled suit, shirt open at the collar, tie askew. Moe has a thinning sliver of matted hair extending from his temples to the back of his head where it disappears in a clump of gray-black hair. The little attendant is unshaven. His bulbous jowls and one glass eye cause the spectators' eyes to dart away.<br />"Pathetic little twerp," one man says.<br />"Just an obsequious, star-struck hanger-on," adds another.<br />Moe is neither. His heart is buried with Christ in the Father's love. He moves unself-consciously through the crowd and extends the Gatorade gracefully to the hero. He is as comfortable as a hand in a glove with his servant role (that is how Jesus first revealed Himself to Moe and transformed his life). Moe feels safe with himself.<br />That night, Carlton Hayes will deliver the main address at the banquet of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, who are attending from all fifty states. He will also be honored with a Waterford crystal cup as the first eight-time Olympic gold medalist.<br />Five thousand people gather at the Ritz-Carlton Hotel. Glitterati from the worlds of politics, sports, and show business are scattered throughout the room. As Hayes steps to the podium, the crowd is just finishing a sumptuous meal. The speaker's address abounds with references to the power of Christ and unabashed gratitude to God. Hearts are touched; men and women weep unashamedly, then give a standing ovation.<br />But behind the glossy delivery, Carlton's vacant stare reveals that his words do not inhabit his soul. Stardom has eroded his presence with Jesus. Intimacy with God has faded into the distance. The whispering of the Spirit has been drowned out by deafening applause.<br />Buoyed by success and the roar of the crowd, the Olympic hero moves easily from table to table. He ingratiates himself with everyone—from the waiters to the movie stars. Back at the Red Roof Inn, Moe eats his frozen TV dinner alone. He was not invited to the banquet at the Ritz-Carlton because, quite honestly, he just wouldn't fit in. Surely it wouldn't be fitting for a pot-bellied, glass-eyed, twerpy attendant to pull up a chair with the likes of Ronald Reagan, Charlton Heston, and Arnold Schwarzenegger.<br />Moe sits down at the table in his room and closes his eyes.<br />The love of the crucified Christ surges within him. His eyes fill with tears. "Thank You, Jesus," he whispers, as he peels the plastic top off his microwaved lasagna. He flips to Psalm 23 in his Bible.<br />I was in the dream, too. Where did I choose to spend that evening?</i><br /><br />Don't feel to guilty about your cynicism. It might be the thing that keeps you sane :-)abmohttp://windblownhope.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com